(no subject)

[doyle]

There's been discussion on bookworm_jen's journal about canon and unconventional relationships. She proposed 4 rankings of relationships:

1) Canon: We saw an actual relationship on screen or there was a clear reference to a past relationship.

2) Near-Canon: We saw flirting or a one time fling on screen, or there was the implication of a past relationship. I would put relationships that are only refered to in commentary or interviews into this category.

3) Non-Canon: There was no relationship on screen, but there was a significant amount of sub-text or build-up and the writers could easily have worked it into the series without distorting the characters too badly.

4) Unconventional: There was no relationship, and it's highly unlikely that the writers could or would have worked it into the series without drastically changing who the characters are.

I'm interested in how subjective these are, or how much we agree on what counts as canon or almost-canon, so I present a poll. I randomly picked 15 m/f, m/m and f/f pairings, some of which happened on the show, some of which didn't. To play, pick which of the categories above you think each one falls into.


[Poll #480215]


[Poll #480216]


[Poll #480217]

Comments

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

Probably not as much. With Connor/Cordelia we know that it was 100% possession. There's arguably subtext between Cordy and Angel in seasons one and two.

I have to say that in that case I took into account that the "relationship" portrayed on screen wasn't convincing to me and since it didn't get very far, easier to ignore. ...And then she remember You're Welcome.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Though the flip side of that is that Connor didn't know that. Connor thinks - or at least thought at the time - that he was having a relationship with Cordelia. So that could affect people's perceptions as well.

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

True, but coming at it from the same my angle again, Connor only ever met a Cordelia construct. He has no memory of the real Cordy. Angel, for instance, has pre-possesion interaction and is basing what's going on in S3 on the immediate interaction with Jasmine and his past feelings.

Connor was only having a relationship with someone he called Cordelia.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's tricky. Esp since the canon never really delved into that either. I mean it's a given that we're supposed to go "Oh yes, Connor was seduced by evil Jasmine" yet the implication is that Cordy was possessed for a while, which would actually mean Angel wasn't really in love with the real Cordy either. Yet canonically we're supposed to take the Angel/Cordy ship as just that, without any of the same baggage.

So... tough call.

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

The conversations between Spike and Cordy in "Spin the Bottle" prove that Angel was in love with the real Cordy. He might be talking to Possessed!Cordy, but he's talking about>/i> the real Cordy. And even when Possessed!Cordy answers his question "Were we in love?" with "We were" it definitely comes over as her telling the truth (for once!).

The reunion with the real (although dead!) Cordy in "You're Welcome" also is hard evidence for a genuine canonical relationship between the real Cordy and Angel. Boy, I really do fall for the dumb ones.

[fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com]

Plus you know , Cordy had the hots for Angel since Buffy Season 2, and by the time Groo returned, Angel already had a big crush on her and was getting willing to admit it.

[gloss]

Connor only ever met a Cordelia construct. He has no memory of the real Cordy
Doesn't this depend on when the possession fully occurred? He did meet Cordy at the end of s3, after all. If Jasmine's possession only took place after the events of "Spin the Bottle", Connor still has a memory of real!Cordy.

[justhuman.livejournal.com]

Sure it depends on when a person feels that Cordy stopped being Cordy. I think there are good arguements going back as far as Birthday, but for me was the moment she left was in Tomorrow. Based on what Skip told him, Wesely later surmised that the decent from the higher planes had confused Jasmine. So the being we saw was some merger of Cordy's memories and a confused Jasmine until Spin the Bottle. To me, it wasn't Cordy at all.

Obviously this is one that will never have a clear answer because of the way that ME needed to wank everything during the Jasmine arc to give it any of the crap CC performance any clarity; thus it's up to the individual to decide.