(no subject)

[doyle]

Hmm. Looking through some old BBF discussion and I saw this comment by Gyrus (whose LJ handle I forget, sorry):

(For example, I recently read a fic in which something bad happens and Giles tries to tell Buffy that there was no way she could have anticipated it. She replies, "But I should've done!" That just looks weird to a Yank like me.)

I'm sure I'm guilty of using that myself. Why's it wrong? Should it be 'shoulda' instead of should've?

...any other glaring errors any of you have noticed non-Americans making? Because god knows I could go on for pages in obsessive Brit-picking of both Harry Potter fics and Buffy fics set in England (the language thing I get, but some of the cultural stuff, the 'my character's British so they've never heard of ___' : we do have pizzas and action movies and strange flavours of chips/crisps in Britain and Ireland, I promise you)

Comments

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

It's the "done" that's the problem. An American would just say, "But I should have."

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Really? ::files away:: It's little things like that that make me want to write nothing but Giles, Ethan, Spike and Wes, just to be safe ;-)

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Ahhh. That makes sense. And it's something I never would have thought of.

[airawyn.livejournal.com]

"Should've" is fine. I think it's the "done" that's the problem. I would change it to "But I should've known!", I think, depending on context.

[airawyn.livejournal.com]

Wow, everyone replied at once. *g*

...any other glaring errors any of you have noticed non-Americans making?

As long as you're asking... I noticed in a fic recently that you had Andrew and Jonathan seeing the Rio Grande when they crossed into Mexico. Unless they took a really long detour, they wouldn't see the Rio Grande; it doesn't come near California. (They might see the Tijuana River, although that's less than impressive.) Also, U.S. citizens don't need passports to travel in Mexico (or Canada). In fact, nobody looks twice at the people crossing in to Mexico; they only care when you want to get back in the U.S. (I grew up in San Diego, so I've been to Mexico multiple times.)

I enjoyed the story otherwise. That just stuck out to me. :)

[swmbo.livejournal.com]

It's the 'done' that looks odd...we would normally have just said 'But I should have!'

[kimera.livejournal.com]

JINX!

[swmbo.livejournal.com]

Hee! I hope you feel special with a gazillion people answering at the same time! *hugs*

[kimera.livejournal.com]

I think it should just be "But I should've!". The "done" is more implied by context rather than actually spoken.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

What kindkit said. We don't say "I should have done" or "I could do." Just "I should have" and "I could." (We say have done or could do when there's an object, like "I should have done my chores" or "I could do the other project now" but we don't end the phrase with the do verb.)

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

Holy fluck, a lot of people replied, really fast!

[cindergal.livejournal.com]

It's the "done." She would probably say "But I should've known!"

[kimera.livejournal.com]

strange flavours of chips/crisps in Britain and Ireland

Yes, but do you have *ketchup* flavoured ones?

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Yep. They're vile.

[amberwaves2.livejournal.com]

Do you have those odd bologna-flavoured chips? I had some in Germany. Nobody could figure out what they were, but the bag said bolongese, which we translated as bologna. We're possibly horribly wrong, but here's hoping it's a European thing.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Can't say as I've ever heard of those... I'm scratching my head wondering what those could be.

[mynxkytten.livejournal.com]

Chiming in because I'm a grammar freak...

Yes, it's the "done" in the phrase that sounds awkward; however, "shoulda" can also be appropriate - depends on the context. For example, I don't think Buffy would say "shoulda", but Starsky would. (woo - jarring fandom cross-reference!)

::slinks back to hide amongst the reference books::

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Woo, Starsky! Although you just put a S&H/Buffy crossover in my head, and that's bad and wrong.

[rainkatt.livejournal.com]

I don't know that you've ever done this, but I've recently run into "parking up" and "car park" in several fics. No. We park, and we do it in parking lots.

I have a thing about "lounge" which I gather means what we call "living room." As a friend of mine once said, the only lounges in this country serve drinks...

And the ensuite bath just doesn't happen where I live, either... Master bath, yes.

I foolishly didn't check the other huge number of comments, so you've already heard this, I'm sure.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

No, this is all good. I've come across the opposite problem of stumbling across parking lots in British fandom fic. Never heard of 'parking up'; wonder if that's a regional expression?

[paratti.livejournal.com]

The wonderful Lori Yank-picks my fics and I Brit-pick hers. It helps us both pick up on the little differences we wouldn't otherwise get, and seems to work for us - and the reader hopefully.

sorta off-topic

[octopedingenue]

(For example, I recently read a fic in which something bad happens and Giles tries to tell Buffy that there was no way she could have anticipated it. She replies, "But I should've done!" That just looks weird to a Yank like me.)

I'm sure I'm guilty of using that myself. Why's it wrong? Should it be 'shoulda' instead of should've?

You've gotten several responses to this already, but I'll chime in: Americans wouldn't use the "done" (which always makes my inner grammar kitty VERY unhappy when I'm reading British literature, even when I smack said kitty with a rolled-up newspaper). It would "But I should have", with no contraction and an emphasis on 'should'. A few people have suggested extending it into "should have known", but I think the shorter version works better for the context. Buffy's not making a general statement about her knowledge or lack thereof; she's responding directly to and refuting to Giles' statement:
Giles: "You couldn't have known." (or whatever)
Buffy: "But I should have!"

...any other glaring errors any of you have noticed non-Americans making?

It's hard to say with the Buffyverse; in canon the characters speak in Buffyspeak, which is peculiar in that it's both more awkward and more elaborately grammatical than usual American. Characters make up words/sentences structures by adding things to the ends of them: "fight-y", "Scary much?/Lame much?/Bored much?/Pregnant much?" On the other hand, there's no WAY that Xander could have done as badly on the verbal portion of the SAT as he claims, because his vocabulary's larger than mine. (Unless he slept through the test. Which, hey, story idea...) Someone wrote a book on Buffyspeak, which I've always intended to pick up, if only to see how watching "Buffy" has warped my own speech patterns.

Sort of on-topic: I'm a Texan and a Fred-fan, and I can get irritated at the lack of fanfiction writers (and the "Angel" writers on the show as well, really) who do anything with Fred's origins in Texas more than give her a thick accent and a Dixie Chicks poster. It's especially annoying in light of the wealth of stories exploring the cultures of England, Ireland, California, and LA specifically and how those cultures influenced the characters who originated there. C'mon, y'all! It's Texas! Texas is insane! Fred was on occasion insane! Have FUN with it, peeeeople! ...Sigh.

If anyone reading this could point me at some good fiction involving Fred & Texas (not necessarily set in Texas, mind), I would be so happy. I've had a Fred-fic "Fair to Midland" lying around ostensibly completed for the past year or so that's all about (probably obnoxiously so) "But Fred is from TEXAS, dammit! TEEEXXXAAAAS!" I've never released it because I really need to throw the first half out and rewrite it, and I'm lazy. But originally a Brit beta-read it for me, and that was interesting, though she did a fabulous job.

Re: sorta off-topic

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

On Xander's verbal SAT: absolutely. The guy who says 'don't deconstruct my segue' scores nowhere near as highly as Buffy?

I'm trying to think of any Texas Fred fic and not coming up with much...

[nikitangel.livejournal.com]

any other glaring errors any of you have noticed non-Americans making?

I see the phrase "in hospital" and "at Christmas" instead of "in the hospital" or "on Christmas". And of course, "Happy Christmas" versus "Merry Christmas", but that's a more infrequent error. Let's see, what else...there's also using the plural verb tenses for collective nouns, like: "IBM are a good company", where an American would say, "IBM is a good company". I'm trying to remember other examples of that. Would you say, "The crowd is getting restless" or "The crowd are getting restless"? Because an American would go for the first version.

There's also one that came up on Buffy, when Giles said, "Well, I know I'm back in America, now I've been knocked unconscious" or something. And American would say, "now *that* I've been knocked unconscious".

And I've heard Brits use the possessive pronoun like this: "Come over to mine tonight", while an American would specify, "Come over to my place tonight."

Then there are the specific word differences - I've seen 'jumper', 'trolley' and 'boot' in fics that are supposed to be 'Americanized'. And the difference between public and private school can get pretty confusing!

That's all I can think of for now. Interesting question!

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

And interesting answers, thank you!

I'd say 'the crowd is getting restless' but that's no guarantee: Northern Ireland grammar obeys rules all of its own.

Example. 'Those are quite good' - filter through my regional dialect to become 'them there's right'n'good'. Thankfully I know enough not to write or speak formally that way...

[attaining.livejournal.com]

I won't comment on the "done" thing, since so many other people have. This isn't really a glaring error as much as something I've noticed. A story will be written from an American character's POV, but all of the spelling will be British. "Colour" and "realise" and "programme" as examples (...unless I've butchered the spelling myself; in which case, I'll be in that corner over there ;). I see this a lot in RPGs, too.

But now that I know you are on the look-out for these kinds of errors, I'll point them out of I should see them in your fic. I haven't so far! The Buffiverse is weird. Even the clueless characters have amazing vocabularies and cultural references that I seriously wonder how high school students know!

I'm writing a fic that's set in London, England right now, and I'm very worried about making cultural slip-ups. I understand your fret!

[dodyskin.livejournal.com]

It's ridiculous to change the spelling for an American character. It's artificial and silly, and inconsistent spelling throughout would be far more distracting. The only possible reason I could see for doing that is if it is a diary-fic or something similar, where it is actually the characters writing. Otherwise, that's like saying I didn't like this fic because the handwriting wasn't accurate, or the page indent was culturally inappropriate. Silly.

[minim_calibre]

The lack of "gotten" (which is the most useful word ever, and your lot ought to have kept it 'round rather than letting it get all archaic on your ass) in Brit-written Buffy fic will throw me, but I suppose explaining exactly where and how we use it would take the age of a dog or something.

(My mother doesn't use it. Damn disturbing.)

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

This has probably been answered a million times by now, but it's the "done" that's not American, not the should've, per se. It would be "But I should have!" Should've is a fine American contraction, but since we don't use the "done" people are unlikely to use it to end the sentence. "I should've called Willow" would be okay, though.