(no subject)

[doyle]

If these are right... Wesley, Lindsey and Gunn die. Harmony turns evil. Connor and Lorne just leave (Lorne's the one who kills Lindsey). Angel, Spike and Illyria are the only three left standing, facing off to a dragon in another dimension... (*damn* connorbeast and me called it! We said the finale would end with them against a dragon!) No shanshu, and it ends on a cliffhanger.

the whole thing at spoilerslayer

I'm kind of dazed right now.


I even private-locked this first to check nothing went screwy with the cut...

ETA: if you're on BAPS and don't want to be spoiled do not go to the group's main page on yahoo. A couple of the summaries for the most current messages give away big spoilers in the first lines.

Comments

[kellyhk.livejournal.com]

Man, Marsters wasn't kidding. Saw a quote on Wrongda where he said "typical Joss ending...drama, action, death."

::thud::

At least can I be optimistic and go, WHEEEEE, for once Spike doesn't buy the farm?

::thud again::

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

I... just don't buy that they'd end the SERIES on a cliffhanger. Unless they're absolutely convinced that the movies are a go, for everyone involved.

Also, as far as I can tell from spoilers... the mindwipe just stays? They all know about the mindwipe but it just STAYS? What the shit?

Won't somebody think of the Lilah children?

[amberwaves2.livejournal.com]

I really hope these aren't true. I really, really do. They're really, really lame. Yeah, it's a typical Joss ending -- but typical Joss endings aren't always the best endings, are they? Grr, argh.

If Harmony does turn evil, I guess putting her in the credits was a total fakeout just to make her evil after. Or something. I don't know.

But Wesley! But Gunn! But Lindsey! Three of the characters I still care about, and they're all gonna die?

Fuck you, Joss. Fuck you up the ass with a rake.

Well, I'm not really shocked or anything. I just wish Joss had a leetle bit more respect for uh, people. Or something. I dunno. I really don't know what to say other than to roll my eyes and go live in denial land.

::goes to live in denial land, where BtVS went into an AU after "Grave" and AtS went into an AU after "Home"::

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

I don't know - I'm thinking Joss might love the idea of a Farscape ending, especially if he gets offered a TV movie. (Doesn't this pretty much kill any chance of an Angel-the-Series movie? Unless it involves a reset? Because there are only three cast members standing by the end!)

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

That's the thing! They're not going to be able to sell a movie on JM and DB alone. I mean, they would, but not nearly as much as if they had Fred, or Wes, or Gunn, or (heaven forbid!) Cordy.

If the movies are going to be Angel, Spike, and Connor Fight Evil? ...Well, I'd still watch, but I'd be annoyed.

I am comforting myself only with the idea of Wes and Lilah shacked up in a comfortable two-bedroom apartment in hell. (The second bedroom is both of their office. They've set up their own practice which is blatantly morally ambiguous, rather than Good or Evil. Also, they have sex a lot. Sometimes with Faith.)

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Now that's a spinoff I'd watch!

[writingpathways.livejournal.com]

Ugh. Already saw them. Really wishing I hadn't.

[writingpathways.livejournal.com]

I personally believe the Movies were never to be ATS movies, but BtVS movies -- or rather Angel/Buffy/Spike triangle movies. Not that I think they are going to happen... Sarah won't do them, and without her I doubt any one would want to air them.

But damn, I'm so glad I started writing Angel fanfic. I'm going to get to live in my Universe where things don't go, OH SO WRONG!

Hmmm

[kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com]

I don't know what to say, really. I'm happy that some lived, but sad that others had to be sacrificed. It kinda makes sense, though, that this kind of ending would come about since we are in the Angelverse after all. No real winners, just a sense of trudging on and fighting until there's no fight left in you.

[thefakeheadline.livejournal.com]

Dude, that is...deeply lame. It appears Joss is going for the "what would piss fans off the most?" ending, as well as the not very sense-making Final Battle he liked so much in Chosen.

Bah. *repeats to self 'it ended after Home. it ended after Home...'

[fenwic.livejournal.com]

Commenting with my hand over my eyes (sorta) to THANK YOU for the warning about BAPS. I would have been very cross indeed if they'd spoiled me.

And gah, every time you post spoilers, my mouse finger twitches ;-)

Thanks, again!

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

No problem! I clicked onto their main page and went "yikes!" If I hadn't been spoiled already, that would have done it.

[http://users.livejournal.com/wisteria_/]

Okay, two things about Harmony (and I'm not targeting you -- I'm just abusing your comment to reply to stuff I've seen all over LJ in the past hour or so *g*):

1. She hasn't "turned" evil. She's always been evil. Yes, she's been working with W&H all season, but she even said in "Conviction" (or one of the other early eps) that it was only because she figured it was easier to work with them than to become their target. Plus, the money was helpful. :)

2. From most accounts I've read, the inclusion of Mercedes McNab in the credits was personal, not plot arc-based. She's been involved in the Jossverse since *before* the beginning -- hell, she was even in the unaired BTVS pilot. Someone said that inclusion in the credits means something tangible for the actor's resume, and perhaps with regards to the Screen Actors Guild, so I'll bet that Joss changed the credits as a final thank-you to her -- which she certainly deserves. :)

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

:sad sniff: You're right, I know, my Harmony love just blinds me...

[writingpathways.livejournal.com]

The Harmony spoiler is the only one that makes sense to me. She's a sheep, all season she's been following Angel and the gang. Now Hamilton.

Harmony follows whoever will make her feel the best about herself. Cordette, Cordelia in Disharmony, then the Vampire Cult, then W & H/Angel.

Evil Little Vampire Sheep.

Only spoiler that didn't have me cringing.

[amberwaves2.livejournal.com]

Oh, go ahead and abuse my comment! It'll be fun! ::g::

Actually, I agree fully with those two points. However, I what I was trying to say in relation to the second one that while putting her in the creidts is a thank you to MM, it's also... eh, nevermind. I can't win my case. ;)

And also, I know you're not targeting *me*, but I got the phrase "turned evil" from the spoilerslayer site, just if you didn't already know. ;)

And for one final point, I've watched a grand total of 1 1/2 episodes this season, so I think I'll let the people with more S5 street cred handle this one -- my non-Harmony based comments were basically just my reaction to the finale spoilers. Uh, I should say they *are* my reaction to the spoilers. God, I'm really inarticulate today. I need some coffee.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Oh, I said 'turned evil' as well *g*

[septembergrrl.livejournal.com]

Okay, that is just ... puzzling.

I wonder if there's one final scene that's not even in the scripts yet?

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering if it's the Butch and Sundance ending, freezing midaction and fading out as Angel and Spike rush the dragon.

[amberwaves2.livejournal.com]

Hee, it's all your fault. I just reread the spoilers, and if I didn't miss some, it doesn't mentioning Harm turning evil at all. It mentions her turning *against* the gang, but not *evil*. ::headdesk::

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Yep! And of course she was evil all along, but I was posting very fast and my typing fingers got away from me *g*

[amberwaves2.livejournal.com]

Eh, it's a reactionary thing. Your brain is kind of on autopilot. It's no big. ;)

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

It depresses me because I went through this exact same thing with Knox. Except I adored Knox on sight whereas Harmony irritated the hell out of me till this season, when I started to like her a lot. Figures she'd be the Judas... (and I still want to know why Lorne kills Lindsey)

[amberwaves2.livejournal.com]

I also want to know why Lorne kills Lindsey! My poor countryman needshishaircut guy. Waah.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Someone on BAPS suggested that Lorne reads something in Lindsey that he really doesn't like (the only thing I can think of is a hand in Fred's death, though I don't know how he could have had since he was in hell-burbia, or that Lindsey's going to betray them)

[vylit.livejournal.com]

Angel is my favorite character, but the one thing, the only thing I was hoping for is that Wes wouldn't die. Everyone else I could take, but not Wes. He deserves so much better.

I can't imagine being able to make it through an ep where both Wes and Gunn die without completely losing it.

I just hope that Angel pushes the damn reset button and they never went to W&H.

[deadmarshes.livejournal.com]

*blows raspberries*

I don't believe any of them. Joss knows that spoilers get leaked and he's probably putting out crazy storylines.

[wickedprincess3.livejournal.com]

but the one thing, the only thing I was hoping for is that Wes wouldn't die.
Mt thoughts exactly. :(

[scanky-chops.livejournal.com]

Well.

Wes. Lindsey. ::sniffs::

For some reason, when you say dragon i think of Puff the Magic Dragon. And i don't know why.

And why is it the A/F S/F shipper in me is quite pleased Angel, Spike and IllyriawithatingeofFred survive. Sort of.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

I'm kinda wondering that one myself. Not that it would necessarily fundamentally change anything we know about the finale, but that it would provide better context. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened with spoilers this season.

[jedi-penguin.livejournal.com]

Wesley, Lindsey, and Gunn--the only humans left--die? That figures. The show that began with a human girl and her human friends fighting evil creatures of the night ended long ago, but still...

I'm glad that Angel is still... whatever it is that vampires do... but that really wasn't why I started watching the show in the first place. I liked his interactions with the oh-so-human Cordelia (dead), and the mostly human Doyle (also dead). And I came to love how he flirted dealt with Wes (soon to be dead). Personally, with the human element removed and an appearance by SMG reported to be unlikely, I probably won't watch an "Angel" movie. (Though I might rent it if Giles makes a cameo appearance...)

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

£50 says Joss is a Forever Knight fan...

[alixnoorchis.livejournal.com]

I caved, I read, and you know what? I kind of like it.

I don't know what it means for all my future writings if my beloved Lindsey is dead, and I'm still hoping for a reset button that we haven't seen yet, but so far it's eerily in line with what I wished would happen, which was:

Wes chooses to follow Illyria rather than Angel, Gunn is cut down fighting, Lindsey helps Angel and is killed, Connor is killed believing that his father would get him through the fight, and Angel and Spike survived. And Faith, but clearly that wasn't going to happen.

Of course, in my little fantasy, Angel's reward was not the shanshu, but a return to the Hyperion, with Gunn, Faith, Connor, Spike, and Lindsey as his new team.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm not having the same "worst episode ever" reaction that I'm seeing a lot, but I feel we're in the minority...

[ros-fod.livejournal.com]

If the movies are going to be Angel, Spike, and Connor Fight Evil

Doyle. Doyle. How do we make this happen?? I mean - fuck, you know, I want Wes there. But if the only alternative is this? I'd watch that. Over and over and over again.